OpenInsight 32-Bit Upgrade is Released! (OpenInsight Specific) [Revelation On-Line Wiki]

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==== OpenInsight 32-Bit Upgrade is Released! (OpenInsight Specific) ====
=== At 15 FEB 2002 04:15:55PM Revelation Software wrote: ===
 
{{tag>"OpenInsight Specific"}}
 
<QUOTE>
Revelation Software is proud to announce that The OpenInsight 4.0.1 Upgrade is now ready for download for WORKS members. You can find it in the WORKS download section.



This will upgrade your existing development copy of OI from 16-bit to 32-bit.



We also have released the OI 4.0.1 evaluation. It can be found in the Demos and Downloads section of the Website. 
</QUOTE>
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=== At 17 FEB 2002 10:45AM Bob Silverstein wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Mike, how about those of us running Windows 98?  What are we, chopped liver?

</QUOTE>

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=== At 17 FEB 2002 02:28PM Mike Ruane wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Bob-



No, you're not chopped liver. Windows versions prior to Windows 98 Second Edition don't have a stable enough 32-bit platform for us to run on. We started this project aiming for Win 95 and above, and it wasn't feasible. We tried Win98, still no joy. Win 98 SE was the first stable one.



I'm pretty sure the Win98 to Win98SE upgrade is a cheap one.



Sorry you're unhappy-



Mike

</QUOTE>

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=== At 17 FEB 2002 09:23PM Donald Bakke wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Bob,



Of course you can certainly try to run it on Win98. It just won't be supported by Revelation for obvious reasons. However, I don't know how unstable Win98 testing was for Mike & company but I think others have had some success.



dbakke@srpcs.com

[url=http://www.srpcs.com]SRP Computer Solutions, Inc.[/url]



[img]http://www.srpcs.com/srpicon1.gif[/img]

</QUOTE>

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=== At 18 FEB 2002 05:40PM Blair Massey wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>I ran the upgrade today.  It looks great!  So far the only glitch in my application is printing.  Since I use OIPI, I guess we need to reinstall it.  The debugger complains about Set_Printer when I print.  Will OI32 work with older OIPI or does that need to be upgraded as well?



</QUOTE>

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=== At 18 FEB 2002 05:57PM Richard Bright wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>My understanding is that in OI v4.01 the OIPI resourse has been updated for the 32bit environment (no longer is it OI16bit--]OIPI 32bit) and is more tightly integrated.  (Your former OIPI stuff would have been replaced?) 

Havn't yet done any real work on OIPI in OI v4.01, that is one of my pressing projects to cut some key reports.

Richard Bright

</QUOTE>

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=== At 18 FEB 2002 07:41PM Donald Bakke wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Blair,



You need to use the START32 and STOP32 commands in OI32 since this is now the 32-bit version of the OIPI.



dbakke@srpcs.com

[url=http://www.srpcs.com]SRP Computer Solutions, Inc.[/url]



[img]http://www.srpcs.com/srpicon1.gif[/img]

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 02:41AM Bob Silverstein wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Mike, thanks for the answer.  I am not unhappy, just disappointed.  However, I have had enough of Win98 and hope to move to 2000 later this year.  I applaud you for your support and the fine job all of you are doing.

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 06:38AM Richard Evans wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Any sign of the TCP NLM we were promised? I have NT Servers running Open Insight on a Novell 4 Server, with 1.5 NLM. I take it it would be back to GFE Hades if I upgraded to 32 bit right away?

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 08:35AM Richard Guise wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>A few practical queries re OI32 ...



1) Some of our clients want to upgrade whilst other don't (yet?).  Therefore I'll have to run both OI16 and OI32 copies on the same PC (or network).  If I copy the OI16 to a second copy and upgrade one of them, will both work OK or will some of the OI32 upgrade components mess up running the OI16 copy?



Also (a lesser point) is there a separate OI Client facility for OI32 to check the workstation?  If OI Client for OI32 is run for a workstation could it still run OI16?



If OI32 proves troublesome in any particular situation, is there any escape route in terms of a downgrade back from OI32 to OI16?



2) I understand that network licences are upgraded by emailing the OENGINE.EXE (with the 45% fee) to Revelation (UK in our case).  How large is the software upgrade and is it to be downloadable, emailed, CD-ROM and/or what?



3) I understand that components (screens, programs, etc.) developed on OI16 will run OK on OI32 and vice veras.  Please confirm.



4) I have Win 98 Second Edition Ver 4.10.2222A on a laptop and Win 98 Ver 4.10.1998 on a desktop.  Although both are Ver 4.10.xxxx, do I assume that, as the latter says nothing about First or Second Edition, it is indeed not Second Edition and therefore unsupported re OI32?  Can anyone familiar with Win 98 version labelling advise?



TIA



Richard Guise

Tornado Property Systems Ltd.

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 11:43AM Donald Bakke wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Richard,



[i]1) Some of our clients want to upgrade whilst other don't (yet?). Therefore I'll have to run both OI16 and OI32 copies on the same PC (or network). If I copy the OI16 to a second copy and upgrade one of them, will both work OK or will some of the OI32 upgrade components mess up running the OI16 copy?[/i]



Both OI16 and OI32 run fine on the same workstation.



[i]Also (a lesser point) is there a separate OI Client facility for OI32 to check the workstation? If OI Client for OI32 is run for a workstation could it still run OI16?[/i]



There is no client install for OI32. It would appear that all DLLs already exist on standard workstations or that all necessary DLLs are installed with OI32 in the REVBOOT directory and don't need to exist anywhere else.



[i]If OI32 proves troublesome in any particular situation, is there any escape route in terms of a downgrade back from OI32 to OI16?[/i]



None of the application components (i.e. Stored Procedures, Windows, Popups, Messages, Reports, Events, etc.) are stored any differently than they are in OI16. Hence, you can use any method of LH deployment/backup to transfer your work back and forth between OI32 and OI16 (i.e. RDK, Appbackup, Check-Out, COPY_ROW, etc.)



[i]2) I understand that network licences are upgraded by emailing the OENGINE.EXE (with the 45% fee) to Revelation (UK in our case). How large is the software upgrade and is it to be downloadable, emailed, CD-ROM and/or what?[/i]



The current software upgrade is about 8.7MB compressed. This is the one for converting development versions however. They have not released the runtime upgrade yet but I imagine it will be about the same size. (One could use the developer upgrade but they will have to swap in their developer engine first and then manually copy in the OI32 runtime engine.)



[i]3) I understand that components (screens, programs, etc.) developed on OI16 will run OK on OI32 and vice veras. Please confirm.[/i]



Confirmed (see above.) The [u]only[/u] issues we've seen are programming that rely on 16-bit DLLs or 16-bit data structures. Revelation have converted their own 16-bit WinAPI calls to 32-bit versions but some applications have prototyped their own WinAPI calls and therefore need to be re-prototyped to conform to Win32 conventions.



[i]4) I have Win 98 Second Edition Ver 4.10.2222A on a laptop and Win 98 Ver 4.10.1998 on a desktop. Although both are Ver 4.10.xxxx, do I assume that, as the latter says nothing about First or Second Edition, it is indeed not Second Edition and therefore unsupported re OI32? Can anyone familiar with Win 98 version labelling advise?[/i]



4.10.1998 is definitely pre-SE. Note that OI32 will probably run on Win98...you just may find some problems along the way. We only had one machine that was Win98 pre-SE and we didn't do any major testing on it, however, OI32 did run. Revelation, of course, won't support it because they know there were changes made to Win98SE and beyond that solved certain problems...but that shouldn't stop you from trying it out yourself.



dbakke@srpcs.com

[url=http://www.srpcs.com]SRP Computer Solutions, Inc.[/url]



[img]http://www.srpcs.com/srpicon1.gif[/img]

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 11:47AM Donald Bakke wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Richard,



Revelation is still working on the TCP/IP support for the NLM. Here is their [url=http://www.revelation.com/WebSite/vipweb.nsf/e4a32622500660198525631900091149/a810ffd2be1a51ae88256b6100829cae?OpenDocument]press release[/url] for the existing TCP/IP driver.



OI32 will run with your current NT Service or your current NLM so you can certainly install and use OI32. However, those existing network products are still limited to 64K record sizes.



dbakke@srpcs.com

[url=http://www.srpcs.com]SRP Computer Solutions, Inc.[/url]



[img]http://www.srpcs.com/srpicon1.gif[/img]

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 01:23PM Victor Engel wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>It is my understanding, though, that the new version does not have the 64K barrier that previous versions had. That could present a problem in a mixed environment if records are allowed to be saved that are over 64K, right?

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 09:12PM Barry Stevens wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>]]OI32 will run with your current NT Service or your current NLM so you can certainly install and use OI32. However, those existing network products are still limited to 64K record sizes.<<



What, so upgrading an existing client network to OI32 still cant use the non 64k limit until we get an NT service upgrade?????



PLEASE CLARIFY....This does not sound right.



Barry

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 10:11PM Pat McNerthney wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Barry,



  OI32 will work using the current NT Service.



  However, the new NT Service does contain a bug fix that has been reproduced in some cases of greater than 64K records, although it is rare.  The same bug can also appear in less than 64K records, but seems to only show up across WANs or across faulty network hardware (which causes the network protocol to perform retries).



Pat

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 11:12PM Barry Stevens wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>]]which causes the network protocol to perform retries<<



How does one know if that is happening now.





Barry

</QUOTE>

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=== At 19 FEB 2002 11:37PM Pat McNerthney wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>You get FS1105 errors during record reads or writes, usually writes though.



Pat

</QUOTE>

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=== At 20 FEB 2002 01:53AM Donald Bakke wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Victor,



Yes, any record exceeding 64K would be unavailable for use in OI16. I guess I took it for granted that Richard knew that. I also assumed he was more concerned that components were going to have a completely different structure between the two versions (similar to how AREV windows and OI forms are different.) Your point is well taken and should also be considered by anybody considering development with both versions.



dbakke@srpcs.com

[url=http://www.srpcs.com]SRP Computer Solutions, Inc.[/url]



[img]http://www.srpcs.com/srpicon1.gif[/img]

</QUOTE>

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=== At 20 FEB 2002 02:04AM Donald Bakke wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Barry,



[i]]]OI32 will run with your current NT Service or your current NLM so you can certainly install and use OI32. However, those existing network products are still limited to 64K record sizes. I'm simply communicating what Mike told me. Now it may be that Mike was overly generalizing because Revelation doesn't want to support ]64K with a buggy NT Service. I'm not sure so I'll let Pat and Mike spell out the details. All I know was that I was told not to expect record sizes of greater than 64K with existing network products. Local applications, however, will support 64K (we tested this thoroughly.)



dbakke@srpcs.com

[url=http://www.srpcs.com]SRP Computer Solutions, Inc.[/url]



[img]http://www.srpcs.com/srpicon1.gif[/img]

</QUOTE>

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=== At 20 FEB 2002 05:19PM Barry Stevens wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Thanks Don 

</QUOTE>

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=== At 20 FEB 2002 05:49PM Mike Ruane wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Barry-



The new NT service, which has a number of new features, such as support for pure TCP/IP connections and ] 64k chunks is a for charge upgrade.



OI32 now supports greater than 64K chunks. The existing NT service does not. You'd need to upgrade the NT service, and we have an upgrade price. Contact Info@revelation.com for details.



We put a lot of work into this new network driver. It seems reasonable that we get a return on the investment.



Mike Ruane

</QUOTE>

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=== At 21 FEB 2002 11:15AM Barry Stevens wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Got the price from David Goddard....That put a break on user's plans...



What are the advantanges of using TCP/IP and are all NT systems capable of using it...is this a total network re-configuration job.



Barry

</QUOTE>


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