All,

I have a client that experiences severe slowdown when there is more than one user in a networked app. The problems occur when two or more users do data entry. If I've got him right it's particularly when they write a row to the app's main table. After doing the write, the app also does an index update, on approximately 25-30 indexes. Some delay is therefore expected, but even with as little as two users connected, writing and indexing can take as much as 20-30 seconds. With more users it's slower still. With four simultaneous users the system is extremely slow and easily hangs.

There is no NT Service, just NPP. Certainly that alone cannot explain the slowness of the system?

The app runs on a newly installed network:

Server:

- HP Netserver 60E w/ Pentium III 500, 128 MB Ram

- NT 4.0 Service Pack 6.a (inclusive hotfix (whatever that is))

- DHCP.

Workstations:

- 2 WS w/ Win98

- 2 WS w/ Win98 Second Edition

- dynamic TCP/IP.

I (and my troubled client) will be grateful for any feedback on this.

- Oystein -

Øystein Reigem,

Humanities Information Technologies,

Allégt 27,

N-5007 Bergen,

Norway.

Tel: +47 55 58 32 42.

Fax: +47 55 58 94 70.

[email protected]

Home tel/fax: +47 56 14 06 11.

Today's listening suggestion: Massive Attack: Inertia Creeps

Oystein,

While not as experienced with NT configurations as I would like, I know that running the NPP is significantly slower by itself than with the NT Service…even with just one person using the system. However, with the hardware you listed I am surprised that it is as bad as you are reporting.

In our office we ran just the NPP on Win98 peer-to-peer for about a year. While slow, I wouldn't say it was intolerable. Now we have NT 4.0 (SP5) and the NT Service. 99% of the time there will only be three people accessing OI (usually as developers) simultaneously, but I still think the investment is well worth it.

We have experienced extreme slowness in OI when running AREV at the same time. I haven't figured out what causes this but I have reported long ago with no response yet from Revelation.

[email protected]

SRP Computer Solutions

Don,

We have other clients with NT servers and at least two users but not with severe slowdowns like this.

About the investment in an NTS being worth it: The annoying thing with our customers is that most of them have very little money. Norway is a rich country, but its museums are in general poor.

I've tried to search the site for postings on similar problems. One seemed particularly interesting:

Subject: NPP slows after 2nd user

Category: Networking Products

Author: Matt Crozier

Date: 06/10/98

http://www.revelation.com/THEWORKS/OIdiscuss.nsf/ef8405490de3608f85256700005245e4/28f95e0873cd9ab7852566210014d899?OpenDocument

But there was never a proper reply. Matt - are you there?

- Oystein -

Matt or others at VSL will no doubt respond, but in the interim I believe that this clients problems were trace to a bunch of hardware / software issues. Net cards, client config configuration - also the index flush time setting (moving it to say ] 15 sec.

I believe that in the end a NT Service was installed (and hopefully) the problems (what ever they were) solved. —- which means no one worked out just WHAT was the core problem. Certainly problems with flaky net cards were judged a major contributor.

BTW the NT version 6a is, I think, a bad version, but I could be wrong. Suggest that you check this out.

Richard Bright

Hi Richard - Yeah, in the end we just gave up and installed the NT Service and the system behaves well now, although a rather expensive solution for a poor site with just two users. However, I don't believe that this was the same site with the problem of the NPP slowing down after the second user. (Unfortunately I can't check Oystein's link to what I originally asked because we are not on Works at the moment).

Matt.

Matt,

Thanks for responding.

Here's what you wrote in that Works posting:

Subject: NPP slows after 2nd user Author: Matt Crozier Category: Date: 06/11/98 ——————————————————————————– Subject: NPP slows after 2nd user Category: Networking Products Author: Matt Crozier Date: 06/10/98 ——————————————————————————– Problems have been with the client for a while. Initially the P100 was the server/workstation, which operated alone very satisfactorily, when the second user logged on there were delays and hang ups. They then tried to run from the P166 (workstation2) with the exact same symptoms. A last ditch problem was to operate from a separate server, hence the NT server. The problems seems to have followed them, with only one user there is generally no problems, two users log on and there is a general slowing up or even lockup. If they removed one user after the lock up the other seems to be able to carry on unimpeded. For your information the following is the setup: File server P200+ 32Mb RAM 2+ Gb Hard disk drive NT4.0 with serv pak 2 on it. Nothing queer about the setup as we have used it in a lot of other sites with no ill effects. Workstation1 P100 16 Mb RAM 2Gb Hard disk drive. Workstation2 P166 32 Mb RAM 2Gb Hard disk drive. Network is 10 Base system. Network protocol is NETBUI. Does anyone have any ideas on what to look for? The NT Service seems overkill for a 2 user system. Thanks for your help, Matt Crozier

- Oystein -

Øystein Reigem,

Humanities Information Technologies,

Allégt 27,

N-5007 Bergen,

Norway.

Tel: +47 55 58 32 42.

Fax: +47 55 58 94 70.

[email protected]

Home tel/fax: +47 56 14 06 11.

Richard,

Thanks for replying.

I'll alert my client to possible problems with NT service pack 6a. If he's able to uninstall it we can find out if that's the culprit.

The KB article Connectivity Issue: Windows NT 4.0 Workstation and Service Pack 6 with Revelation NT Service 1.5 and the All Networks Driver 1.5 points to problems with both 6 and 6a. But I don't know how much is relevant for my client's case. He's not got the Revelation NT Service, and he hasn't got the symptom mentioned in the article (FS1006 "Unable to access Linear Hash files").

With "index flush time setting" are you referring to background indexing? That's been switched off (but of course I can check with my client it hasn't somehow turned itself on again. I think I've seen it happen before).

- Oystein -

Øystein Reigem,

Humanities Information Technologies,

Allégt 27,

N-5007 Bergen,

Norway.

Tel: +47 55 58 32 42.

Fax: +47 55 58 94 70.

[email protected]

Home tel/fax: +47 56 14 06 11.

Spoke to Matt and he would confirm that it was the same client.

The particular client, as I mentioned earlier, had a mix of problems. One identifieb was the Environment Index Settings - setting of Index Before Update (which was say 5 seconds). I believe they wound it out to say 30 sec. (Matt or Chris please correct me)

This solved the first problem. Then they had GFE's. This was firstly linked to el cheapo crap net cards. And so the saga goes on..

Last report they are doing OK with a NT Service .. until they put the next service patch on (:!

Richard

Richard (or Matt),

Thanks a lot for responding. Hope you're willing to share your more of your knowledge about this stuff.

(My reply comes late, but I've been away on a holiday since you responded. Quite a change with sleet and snow and frustrated clients after 10 days in sunny Madeira!)

The particular client, as I mentioned earlier, had a mix of problems. One identifieb was the Environment Index Settings - setting of Index Before Update (which was say 5 seconds). I believe they wound it out to say 30 sec. (Matt or Chris please correct me) This solved the first problem. Then they had GFE's. This was firstly linked to el cheapo crap net cards. And so the saga goes on..

I've alerted my client to the two possible causes you mention, but I'm not very optimistic about their relevance. Therefore I'm curious about the rest of the saga, in case there are further things I can check…

Last report they are doing OK with a NT Service .. until they put the next service patch on (:!

Don't know yet if my client can afford one, but we'll probably bite the dust and buy one here and test it on his site to see if it helps.

- Oystein -

Øystein Reigem,

Humanities Information Technologies,

Allégt 27,

N-5007 Bergen,

Norway.

Tel: +47 55 58 32 42.

Fax: +47 55 58 94 70.

[email protected]

Home tel/fax: +47 56 14 06 11.

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